# The zero-sum mistake is costing everyone

> Ford Foundation's Roy Swan argues that the belief someone must lose for you to win is draining the whole economy.
- Title: The zero-sum mistake is costing everyone · Slate Magazine
- Summary: Ford Foundation's Roy Swan argues that the belief someone must lose for you to win is draining the whole economy. Impact and profit are not a trade-off…
- Keywords: economics, impact investing, capitalism, finance, podcasts, zero-sum, mistake, costing, everyone, Slate Magazine
- Source: Slate Magazine — https://slate.com/podcasts/slate-money/2026/09/business-ford-foundation-roy-swan-on-zero-sum-economics?via=rss
- Published: 2026-09-15T07:00:00+00:00
- Read time: 1 min
- Topics: economics, impact investing, capitalism, finance, podcasts
## A bet against zero sum
On Money Talks, Elizabeth Spiers sits down with Roy Swan to take apart one of the most stubborn assumptions in business: that every winner needs a loser.
## Who Roy Swan is
Swan runs the mission investments program at the Ford Foundation, which puts real capital behind deals that are supposed to do good and still pay off.
## The assumption on trial
The standard view says you pick one: positive impact or positive returns. Swan's position is that this framing is simply wrong, not just unkind.

> the idea that someone has to lose in order for you to win
## It costs money, not just morals
Swan's argument is economic as much as ethical. Zero-sum thinking carries a societal price and an economic one, shrinking the pie everybody is fighting over.
## Impact and returns together
The two are not mutually exclusive. Deals structured for both can work, which is the whole premise of how Swan deploys Ford Foundation capital.
## The book behind the case
Swan lays it out in Positive Sum: How Zero-sum Thinking Broke Capitalism, and How We Can Fix It. The episode is the short version of that argument.
## Key takeaway

Impact and profit are not a trade-off; treating them as one leaves money and progress on the table.